Expelled

[CopyCat]

I've watched the "Proving that the Bible is repulsive" video and can only say that the questions raised are based on one incorrect premise that I don't have time to get into at this time. I responded to it yesterday early, and saw it posted but now it's gone?????

I would look forward to you having more time to answer my questions... Hearing you anwser my questions feels like the equivalent of having a small bird in my hands that is desperately trying to escape... lol !!! I think I may have glanced at your missing response yesterday, thinking that I was going to get back to it... Did it by chance say something about Christian fundamentalist not observing the 7th day as a day of rest... Surely I must be mistaken or have dreamed this... Surely you fundamentalist have not just tossed out one of the Ten Commandments ??? When I looked to respond to this comment it was gone and I thought that you had seen your mistake or changed your mind and removed it...

Before I get into that, I would like to say that a lot of your misunderstandings about a mean/nice God involve the fact that we are judged by the Law of the old testament but are saved from it by the redeeming grace of Christ. I know that doesn't make any sense to you right now, but I hope and pray someday it will.

lol !!! You are certainly right there Bob, I don't understand your reference to "Law of the old testament"... Being that the Bible was put to together like hundreds of years after the life and death of Jesus Christ... And I'm sure that supposedly Gods guiding hand must have been there to pick and choose what he wanted to go in his Bible... So why pray tell would he include laws that did not apply to that time period ??? To confuses us maybe, is your God a prankster ??? It would seem to me that a God would have written a Bible that would be easily understandable instead of a book of riddles...

THE FIRST LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.

Seems like we have been over this, but lets do it one more time... All you say below that line is only a theory Bob... You Christians do seem to have a hard time with the concept of a theory... I would like to refer you back to the science, faith chart I have posted above my last post... I did notice the word theory is not on your side of the chart... You seem to think of this source of enormous energy before the big bang as proof of God... Where else could it have come from ??? Well Bob I present you with the "WE DON"T KNOW YET" theory... It was 4.5 fricking billion years ago, we just don't know yet... You have no problem with the fact that you don't know what is going to happen tomorrow, but you can't except the fact that you don't know what happened 4.5 billion years ago...

That is unless you just don't WANT to believe in the existence of God >because< that
would make you accountable to a higher power.

I would not have problem with being held accountable, if I had an eternity of bliss waiting Bob... I'm not a mean or evil person as you might make me out to be... I did notice that you left out your "73 & God bless ~ >*), Bob>< ~ With Alacrity" on this last post... Which leads me to think that you have become perturb with me... I'm sorry Bob, I only say what I believe...
Best Wishes~ >*), Mitch>< ~CopyCat

[Tyrfingr]

lol i see you two are at it again :D... This time around i will be content with watching how it unfolds in an inevitable tie as always.

[With Alacrity]

^^ Hi Karl, Good to hear from you. ^^

"Well Bob you talk like Christianity has been here since the beginning, but in fact it is just a branch off of Judaism..

"

Mitch, your biggest problem with your understanding of the Bible is that you are going to atheist's for enlightenment. Atheists are not out to investigate IF there is a God; but rather to prove one thing; and that is, there is no God. That's hardly the way to find enlightenment. Instead, you need to have your >legitimate< questions answered by Christian apologetics that is, people to whom the word is revealed, NOT concealed.

You are absolutely RIGHT about this portion of your statement: Christianity HAS been here since the very beginning.

It started with the promise of a savior way back in Genesis just after the fall of man. As a matter of the fact the entire old testament points to the promise of a savior. Allow me to explain at least the first promise.

In Genesis:2:17 God commanded Adam: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. I've italicized [neither shall ye touch it] because Eve was putting words into Gods' mouth, which was the actual first sin against God. NOT the eating of the forbidden fruit as popular lore would have it.

(Note: Before the fall, the serpent was the most beautiful of Gods' creatures and did not crawl on the ground like a worm.)
Now as part of the curse that God placed on the serpent Genesis 3:15 states: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; IT shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIS heel.

All but the most liberal of "Christian" theologians that I've run across have agreed that the IT: is Jesus and he will bruise the serpents head but they never could agree on what it meant that Jesus heel would be bruised. Today thanks to archeology, we know that crucifixion was not done anything like the popular pictures by the italian artists. To be honest, as one born with a mechanical acumen, this has bothered me as long as I can remember as being a ridiculous and impossible depiction on several levels MECHANICALLY.

(Sorry, if you wanted to talk to a fundamental faith driven Christian, you've picked a poor excuse in me.) With the exception of a fair eye photographically, I'm ALL mechanics or electronics.

In continuing:
I was even taught that God must have been referring to the bruising pressure involved in having the feet of Christ pressing against the cross. Yah, sure! There is NO WAY the feet could be fastened to the cross as depicted by the Italian painters- PERIOD!!! Wood was very expensive & hand hewn without power tools. They sure as heck couldn't have had neatly hewn platforms affixed by nails for the subjects feet to rest on. Especially when you consider the did this to THOUSANDS of people at a time. Any other way of fastening the feet to the cross would result in failure as the feet separated while the nails tore out. EXCEPT to drive the nails through the calcaneum (heel bone). This is born out by the 1968 discovery of the "THE CRUCIFIED MAN FROM GIV'AT HA-MIVTAR" were they found the skeletal remains of a man in his twenties, who had been crucified. The evidence for this was based on the right calcaneum (heel bone) of the individual, pierced by an iron nail 11.5 cms. in length. The nail penetrated the lateral surface of the bone emerging on the middle of the surface in which the tip of the nail had become bent. The bending of the tip of the nail upon itself suggests that after the nail penetrated the bone it must have struck a knot in the wood thereby making it difficult to remove from the heel when the victim was taken from the cross.

Remains of olive wood found between the head of the nail and the heel bone (the calcaneum) suggest that prior to penetrating the calcaneum the nail went through a hole in a wooden spacer so as to increase the size of head of the nail head thus preventing the feet from coming free of the upright. [in order to prevent splitting the wood, the hole was probably burned in the spacer with a heated augur, a common method of drilling wood at the time. One can imagine the struggling victim could possibly break the calcaneum during the extreme agonies of standing on a rough square nail driven through the bone, were it not secured by a "washer" to stabilize the foot.] Anyhow the feet were nailed through the heel to the SIDES of the upright portion of the cross.

Sorry Mitch, as you have so little understanding of the bible from a Christian perspective, I've had to run a bit afield in order to explain the first promise of christ was right after the fall. I hope this helps you to see that Christianity is fact OLDER than Judaism, because it is the promise of a redeemer throughout the old testament even before Abraham.

[CopyCat]

Mitch, your biggest problem with your understanding of the Bible is that you are going to atheist's for enlightenment. Atheists are not out to investigate IF there is a God; but rather to prove one thing; and that is, there is no God. That's hardly the way to find enlightenment. Instead, you need to have your >legitimate< questions answered by Christian apologetics that is, people to whom the word is revealed, NOT concealed.

I have talked to Christians Bob, but most of what they tell me makes no sense... I mean you guys were still locking people up who didn't think the world was flat just 400 years ago... You guys were still burning witches 250 years ago... And then how long ago was it that you good old Christian KKK boys were stringing up black people... Here I have a video of some Christians talking here... I'm not sure what they are saying...

YouTube - Sherri Shepherd Needs A History Lesson

It started with the promise of a savior way back in Genesis just after the fall of man. As a matter of the fact the entire old testament points to the promise of a savior. Allow me to explain at least the first promise.

In Genesis:2:17 God commanded Adam: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. I've italicized [neither shall ye touch it] because Eve was putting words into Gods' mouth, which was the actual first sin against God. NOT the eating of the forbidden fruit as popular lore would have it.

I have read the book of Genesis a few times... If I remember right it was written by Moses back 14 or 1500 BC... I think it was in the book of Exodus where it says something about him writting it...

(Note: Before the fall, the serpent was the most beautiful of Gods' creatures and did not crawl on the ground like a worm.)
Now as part of the curse that God placed on the serpent

Yeah yeah, I remember this, God said on your belly you will go, and dust you will eat all the days of your life... This seemed pretty stupid to curse all snakes from then on because Satan took the form of a snake... I would be guessing that Satan could care less what God did to snakes...

Genesis 3:15 states: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; IT shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIS heel.
All but the most liberal of "Christian" theologians that I've run across have agreed that the IT: is Jesus and he will bruise the serpents head but they never could agree on what it meant that Jesus heel would be bruised. Today thanks to archeology, we know that crucifixion was not done anything like the popular pictures by the italian artists. To be honest, as one born with a mechanical acumen, this has bothered me as long as I can remember as being a ridiculous and impossible depiction on several levels MECHANICALLY.
I was even taught that God must have been referring to the bruising pressure involved in having the feet of Christ pressing against the cross. Yah, sure! There is NO WAY the feet could be fastened to the cross as depicted by the Italian painters- PERIOD!!! Wood was very expensive & hand hewn without power tools. They sure as heck couldn't have had neatly hewn platforms affixed by nails for the subjects feet to rest on. Especially when you consider the did this to THOUSANDS of people at a time. Any other way of fastening the feet to the cross would result in failure as the feet separated while the nails tore out. EXCEPT to drive the nails through the calcaneum (heel bone). This is born out by the 1968 discovery of the "THE CRUCIFIED MAN FROM GIV'AT HA-MIVTAR" were they found the skeletal remains of a man in his twenties, who had been crucified. The evidence for this was based on the right calcaneum (heel bone) of the individual, pierced by an iron nail 11.5 cms. in length. The nail penetrated the lateral surface of the bone emerging on the middle of the surface in which the tip of the nail had become bent. The bending of the tip of the nail upon itself suggests that after the nail penetrated the bone it must have struck a knot in the wood thereby making it difficult to remove from the heel when the victim was taken from the cross.

Did you say "thanks to archeology" ??? I think you did, well just how would you know how old those bones were ??? How do you know that those skeletal remains were not put there 50 years ago Bob???

Remains of olive wood found between the head of the nail and the heel bone (the calcaneum) suggest that prior to penetrating the calcaneum the nail went through a hole in a wooden spacer so as to increase the size of head of the nail head thus preventing the feet from coming free of the upright. [in order to prevent splitting the wood, the hole was probably burned in the spacer with a heated augur, a common method of drilling wood at the time. One can imagine the struggling victim could possibly break the calcaneum during the extreme agonies of standing on a rough square nail driven through the bone, were it not secured by a "washer" to stabilize the foot.] Anyhow the feet were nailed through the heel to the SIDES of the upright portion of the cross.
Sorry Mitch, as you have so little understanding of the bible from a Christian perspective, I've had to run a bit afield in order to explain the first promise of christ was right after the fall. I hope this helps you to see that Christianity is fact OLDER than Judaism, because it is the promise of a redeemer throughout the old testament even before Abraham.

Run a bit afield you say ??? Is all you've done is quote some bible scripture and talk about how to crucify people... I think we must have seen the same show on the history channal about crucifixions, because I had heard all that stuff before... In all, your post made no more sense to me than those girls up there in that video...
Best Wishes~ >*), Mitch>< ~CopyCat

FTW !!!

[With Alacrity]

Regarding: THE FIRST LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. 4/26/08
"

All you say below that line is only a theory Bob... You Christians do seem to have a hard time with the concept of a theory.."

I comment on this as I did not use one word of theory in writing that. Every word is taken from scientifically proven laws of physics long proven and accepted by engineers & scientists. All I did was follow it through to the only logical conclusions. No theories on my part whatsoever.
.

I would like to refer you back to the science, faith chart I have posted above my last post... I did notice the word theory is not on your side of the chart.

Sorry, the left hand chart is certainly correct, however, the right hand chart rather obviously has been miss-titled. It should read 'Darwinism.'
73 & God bless ~ >"), Bob>< ~ With Alacrity

[Tyrfingr]

I wouldn't even know what to answer back at *sigh*... It seems like a whole bunch of various themes being tossed around at the moment. Non believer vs bible scripture, believer vs theory of evolution. And theory itself.. I even saw something about Thermodynamics actually proving the existence of god. To me this sounds like clinging on with teeth and nails to faith, because that's what you got to have plenty of when making a statment like that lol.

This is the fundamental that we know - Man wrote the bible, what part any god had in it's creation is also referenced in the same book, which were again, penned by man, people, humans. And lots of these people hardly bare any weight behind them. They were all supposedly desciples to jesus, who were according to people at the time, the son of god. Now... Believing these tales takes, faith. And to have faith, you have to be able to believe what you read or hear. The fat misstake that believers make, is that they assume in some way that other peoples minds work in the same manner as their own when it comes to these matters. Which is why many people will call you an idiot for having a different oppinion, some people just wont accept it.

You wont be able to convince someone to believe in anything whole heartedly. A person who are convinced by means of suggestion or carefully constructed arguments by others , are highly likely to believe out of ignorance. A person who are above average of intelligence and reasonbly educated in litterature and history, will most likely be able to form their own ideas and theories of life and the world we live in. While other people simply adopt affixed theories that makes sense to them, some people after all isn't interested at all in those big questions. People are essentially more interested in going on with their life, which i think is a healthier approach than to sit around and wonder or believe in something higher. Back in the church days, people were more or less forced to believe and they even visited their homes to makes sure they knew their scriptures. Which was a major reason why people moved to America in those days, to get their basic freedoms back and other peoples noses out of their asses... This is what established religion is all about, control. People who do believe out of personal faith from their own research is a whole other story, but those same people should stick to believing and cease trying to spread their words to others, as if they couldnt think for themselves. That's just plain arrogant and personal need for agreement in belief. People don't want to be hassled with ideas they have no interest in, that's why *snaps fingers* they moved away from here during those fine and dandy christian days in europe.



On a personal note, i don't believe in religion because i can't. I have no control over my mind to tell it to believe, it doesn't work like that. If this God critter is infallable and judging people, perhaps he shouldn't have made any in the first place. Because to me it seems rather fallable when claiming to be all knowing and all wise, love everything and everyone, have eternal patience. Dish out free will out of love, and then be displeased because people choose to live in a certain way.... An infallable being who knows how another being works, who are his exact opposite. Don't make me laugh... It would be an all loving being if he had simply made peoples minds like he did jesus, that way everyone would have been guaranteed to enter heaven. No wars, no babies in micro ovens and everyone would be happy. But no, he wanted diversity and multitude of personalites.. It doesn't take a perfect being to figure out that, in a diverse mulitude of personalites there will be bound to be murderers, rapists, phedophiles/child molestors (Innocent infants in the line of fire. God is all loving ? = Rethink!) etc etc. And these are people he is aware that he will have to condemn to hell. Nice divine plan.. For some people. I believe he even flooded earth in the bible once because he got angry over how people behaved. Of course the editors mentioned that it would never happen again.. But they did point out that he got, mildly upset and killed everyone. Infallable and eternal patience *ouch!* Killing your children because you failed with parenting them, now that is a true sign of not accepting failure in my book.

At any rate.. These aren't the arguments or something that i use for not believing, i simply can't believe. I don't believe a person should attempt or really try hard to believe in something because of stories of what might happen if you dont. If you believe in something passively without force of any kind, then you are probably believing what is right, for you... I wasen't smacked across my face with any scriptures as a child, as i know others who were and ended up christians. I was left to figure things out the way i pleased, and since then. I have come to my own conclutions, or simply agreed on the most reasonble explanations of existence of matter and life. I haven't choosen not to believe in anything.. The thing is (for the third time to underline it). I cannot believe in any religion. I don't know why. If my mind can't accept it. Then, perhaps.. That is also, another proof of fallacy in some higher being i wont.. mention.

[CopyCat]

Bob you tell me that you are showing me proof of God
when we know that God in itself is just a theory...
And that is not to mention the fact that the big bang
is also a theory... So all you have in effect is
conjecture... Your only making yourself look silly
here... Now I'm I right, or I'm I right ???
Best Wishes~ >*), Mitch>< ~CopyCat

[With Alacrity]

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” —John Adams...
You might find this interesting:
Crucifixion in Antiquity - CenturyOne Foundation

Some of those geniuses believed the feet could have been nailed side by side on one side of the cross upright, however try placing your feet side by side and try to imagine driving a nail through and through the calcaneum. Ridiculous!

I have talked to Christians Bob, but most of what they tell me makes no sense... I mean you guys were still locking people up who didn't think the world was flat just 400 years ago... You guys were still burning witches 250 years ago... And then how long ago was it that you good old Christian KKK boys were stringing up black people...

Unfortunately many cultists have borrowed the name of Christ to further their own agenda. In the meantime you Darwinists were exterminating Jews, priests, teachers, or anyone that disagreed with your philosophy within YOUR OWN lifetime. Right now TODAY there are battles going on throughout the U.S. DEMANDING that Darwinism be the law of the land, being taught without any disclaimers stating that it is a theory, and forbidding the very discussion of it as anything but PROVEN FACT!

"Science" without discussion? lol

Darwin was on to something big, (micro evolution) he was on to changes within species. But there's never been a provable observation of a NEW species being created. How would he come up with new theories today with the discussion of any new ideas being totally forbidden if they don't follow the hard line of todays evolution?

>^,,^< >^,,^< >^,,^< >^,,^< >^,,^< >^,,^<

Btw., I looked over the list of errors in the Bible. I am very familiar with all but one of them and could take a LOT of time answering them one by one, but then, instead of being convinced by my correcting the ones you give me now, you would simply come up with more 'ad infinitum', instead of realizing that the questions are deliberately invalid to bamboozle the unlearned or unenlightened.

I keep poking universe sized holes in Darwinism and yet you fail to see them. People who are confident in their ideas are not afraid of criticism, this tells me that Darwinists are afraid. Evolution's apologists have switched from defending Darwinist hard-line to attacking religion. You continue to cling desperately to Darwinism like a drowning man dragging your rescuer down in your panic. There are not enough hours in the day for me to be dragged into foolish argument by good people so badly misinformed about bible origins and history. I have run across this coming out of college classes represented as fact. I see Karl quoting these "facts" in his post, and find it nauseating that decent, intelligent, educated people like yourselves are having this tripe hand fed to you by gullible, Satan led people.

If you get serious about wanting answers to those questions go to one of many Christian apologetics websites, or better yet buy a book or some CD's from a reputable source such as "Dinosaur adventure land, or beyond today.com"
~~~ 73 & God Bless ~ >",)Bob>< ~~~ With Alacrity

,¸¸,.·*-:-*.·:*:·. >^ , , ^< .·:*:·.*-:-*·.,¸¸,

[CopyCat]

You might find this interesting:
Crucifixion in Antiquity - CenturyOne Foundation

Oh yeah, that was so fascinating...
It was a lot like watching paint dry...

Some of those geniuses believed the feet could have been nailed side by side on one side of the cross upright, however try placing your feet side by side and try to imagine driving a nail through and through the calcaneum.

Your really hung up on this crucifixion thing aren’t you... It must be an engineering thing...

Unfortunately many cultists have borrowed the name of Christ to further their own agenda. In the meantime you Darwinists were exterminating Jews, priests, teachers, or anyone that disagreed with your philosophy within YOUR OWN lifetime. Right now TODAY there are battles going on throughout the U.S. DEMANDING that Darwinism be the law of the land, being taught without any disclaimers stating that it is a theory, and forbidding the very discussion of it as anything but PROVEN FACT!

Show me examples of this exterminating of Jews, priests, teachers...

Btw., I looked over the list of errors in the Bible. I am very familiar with all but one of them and could take a LOT of time answering them one by one, but then, instead of being convinced by my correcting the ones you give me now, you would simply come up with more 'ad infinitum', instead of realizing that the questions are deliberately invalid to bamboozle the unlearned or unenlightened.

Oh I see how this works, I answer your questions, you dodge mine...

If you get serious about wanting answers to those questions go to one of many Christian apologetics websites, or better yet buy a book or some CD's from a reputable source such as "Dinosaur adventure land, or beyond today.com"

I've told you and given you a example video of what I get when I talk to Christians... They make me feel like I'm talking to a used car salesman that is trying to unload a lemon...
Best Wishes~ >*), Mitch>< ~CopyCat

YouTube - Tough Question for Christians #11: Kill...

[With Alacrity]

Good grief! I don't have time for this. I could easily waste my life answering twisted nonsense like this and you could still come up with more. This is just another question easily answered by a Christian apologetics website where you have dedicated men MUCH smarter than I to answer them IF YOU ARE REALLY INTERESTED, AND >IF< YOU COULD EVER BE SATISFIED. It's Not that you wouldn't be worth it it's just I do have a life beside answering questions by blind men who WILL not see, conversely to those who CAN not see.

He Quotes Luke 19:27 by itself naturally so that it will be more easily taken out of context (YAWN) why does this sound so familiar? I will italicize the salient words starting a few verses before that so that it will put it into context.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Hello? Do I REALLY have to explain the obvious?

22 Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

When Jesus comes again he will come not as a lamb to slaughter as he came the first time, he will be coming as a conqueror to judge the unsaved by their own words spoken during their lifetime. His enemies will be kaput, finis, done for... Hallelujah!

Revelation: :11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS

Does this sound like he's coming back to say: Ats-a nice-a. Yous-a been-a good-a boy-a.

HE'S COMING BACK AS A CONQUERING KING AND WILL DESTROY HIS ENEMIES.
HE'S NOT COMING BACK AS MR NICE GUY.

~~~ 73 & God Bless ~ >",)Bob>< ~~~